a new hope for star wars?

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:39 am

hey we all know the new star wars trilogy sucks, unless we're in denial or something, but that doesn't mean the star wars universe has to suck with it, right? that insane person george lucas and his team of cronies and midgets did have something.

SO there's all this tv licensing going on now. there's the clone wars cartoon, which is now on dvd. it's twenty 3-minute episodes, but on the dvd they all run together smoothly and it works surprisingly well. because of the time format, it doesn't have a lot of dialogue or plot. it's almost like you're just watching the clone wars, and it can be really, really cool at times.

it was made as a sort of bridge between eps 2 and 3, neither of which really show the bulk of the clone wars, so if clone wars are what you always wanted out of the prequels, I really do suggest this dvd. there's going to be a second series too, made as 15 minute episodes, so it should have a little more time for stories in the episodes.

it's animated by genndy tartakovsky, who does powerpuff girls and samurai jack, and it manages to feel like star wars and something all its own at the same time. either way, it's pretty damn cool. you know you've always wanted to see the force used really violently on a lot of people (or droids) at once. the dvd's not expensive at all, and I've found it very rewatchable, perhaps because what makes it enjoyable isn't a specific plot, but rather just seeing star wars handled really well in a new way, and watching jedi kick ass the way we've all always wanted them to.

there are also going to be two star wars tv series made in the next few years. one is, again, about the clone wars. the other will take place between the two trilogies. apparently one is live action and one is entirely cg, I can't remember which is which, and I'm not really sure what the specific plans are. because of recent star wars experiences, this at first sounds like a downright bad idea. but I'm sure there are a lot of good tv writers out there who fall right into the star wars loving age group, and this could be done well if... it's done well.

and finally, there is lego star wars the video game, which is perhaps the only really enjoyable thing to come out of the original trilogy so far. well, it's funny and entertaining at least. admittedly, it'd be a lot better if it was based on the old trilogy... and maybe if you could make stuff out of lego yourself. oh well, at least no one talks in it!

Sephira · Post by **Sephira** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:51 am

I've actually heard pretty much nothing but good about Revenge of the Sith.

It sounds like it's going to redeem the new trilogy (not that I minded Episodes 1 and 2...they were just okay...).

But, yes, Episode 3 is being hailed as "The best one since Empire Strikes Back!" ...Which, of course, only leaves Jedi and Episode 1 and 2...but still!

I do want to try to see the Clone Wars animated...but it's not essential to me.

Yeah, Lego Star Wars! I really gotta rent it... it looks great.

Helmholz · Post by **Helmholz** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:55 am

All I have to say about the new trilogy is...."YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!"

I hope to God this one doesn't disappoint me.

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:56 am

When I checked yesterday, RotS had 93% on rottentomatoes after 30 reviews, so that's pretty decent. It's ironic that IGN of all people only gave it 3/5 stars though.

Scissors · Post by **Scissors** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:28 am

That IGN review was idiotic. All he complained about was about stupid shit such as why the Clonetroopers kill all of the Jedi without thinking twice. Apparently, this guy never saw Episode II where they blatantly answer this question. In any case, considering that they loved Hitchhiker's Guide and also thought that Constantine was the "best comic book film ever", I wouldn't really take their opinion seriously.

Kakeru · Post by **Kakeru** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:54 am

smeared ink wrote:hey we all know the new star wars trilogy sucks, unless we're in denial or something, but that doesn't mean the star wars universe has to suck with it, right? that insane person george lucas and his team of cronies and midgets did have something.

SO there's all this tv licensing going on now. there's the clone wars cartoon, which is now on dvd. it's twenty 3-minute episodes, but on the dvd they all run together smoothly and it works surprisingly well. because of the time format, it doesn't have a lot of dialogue or plot. it's almost like you're just watching the clone wars, and it can be really, really cool at times.

it was made as a sort of bridge between eps 2 and 3, neither of which really show the bulk of the clone wars, so if clone wars are what you always wanted out of the prequels, I really do suggest this dvd. there's going to be a second series too, made as 15 minute episodes, so it should have a little more time for stories in the episodes.

it's animated by genndy tartakovsky, who does powerpuff girls and samurai jack, and it manages to feel like star wars and something all its own at the same time. either way, it's pretty damn cool. you know you've always wanted to see the force used really violently on a lot of people (or droids) at once. the dvd's not expensive at all, and I've found it very rewatchable, perhaps because what makes it enjoyable isn't a specific plot, but rather just seeing star wars handled really well in a new way, and watching jedi kick ass the way we've all always wanted them to.

there are also going to be two star wars tv series made in the next few years. one is, again, about the clone wars. the other will take place between the two trilogies. apparently one is live action and one is entirely cg, I can't remember which is which, and I'm not really sure what the specific plans are. because of recent star wars experiences, this at first sounds like a downright bad idea. but I'm sure there are a lot of good tv writers out there who fall right into the star wars loving age group, and this could be done well if... it's done well.

and finally, there is lego star wars the video game, which is perhaps the only really enjoyable thing to come out of the original trilogy so far. well, it's funny and entertaining at least. admittedly, it'd be a lot better if it was based on the old trilogy... and maybe if you could make stuff out of lego yourself. oh well, at least no one talks in it!

The second animated Clone Wars series already aired about a month ago I believe I watched it and it was kind of cool. Honestly I don't think the new trilogy is that bad. Saying simply that "it sucks" is an exagerration. Okay, maybe it's not as good as the first but that doesn't mean it's bad. Episodes I and II were decent enough and I was satisfied with them.

About the two TV series, it's the one about the Clone Wars that's in CG.

As for Episode III I'm looking forward to it and I'm sure I won't be disapointed. (even if some of you fanboy's are).

And on Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, that was actually an entertaining movie and I thought it was pretty good. The only people I've heard about that have said bad things about are retarded fanboy's upset because it didn't follow the book.
I actually heard a review on the radio and they talked a bit about the author of the books, and one of the things I clearly remember them discussing was about how the author liked the movie and about his wishes for the story evolve and change. So yes, it was a good movie. One I may even buy on DVD when it's released.

omar sharif · Post by **omar sharif** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:13 am

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:18 am

I don't think I'd be able to watch the clone wars catroon, it just looks bad to me D:

Plaztik · Post by **Plaztik** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:11 am

I have high hopes for RotS: it has to flush away the bad taste i had after watching ep 1 and 2...not that they were bad, but they felt empty to me...there was something missing

maybe because we knew what was going to happen the minute Lucas announced the new trilogy

i dunno...i just hope ep 3 willl not dissappoint me

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:13 pm

You weren't even born when that film first came out

A lot of the current fan support for the first trilogy comes from nostalgia, obviously. But it did invent a whole new movie genre and influenced a lot of later fiction works (among which the Final Fantasy series). What might seem cheesy and clicheed nowadays was fresh and innovative back then...
+ Harrison Ford

Plaztik · Post by **Plaztik** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:00 pm

nostalgia is a keyword here

the first time i saw a new hope i was estatic...i don't think i slept at all that night...
I don't think you should measure this film by it's age and obviously flawed script, but for it's innovative setting and coolness(;))

without these films we would have missed out on Spaceballs!

Brody · Post by **Brody** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:50 pm

You're all gonna cry and you know it. Just like your in some sappy little chick flick.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:51 pm

I won't cry if Jar Jar dies

man of txt · Post by **man of txt** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:54 pm

Regardless of how crap or good it is we are all going to watch. I’m curious to see if Mr.Lucas manages to pull it off. I don’t expect it to be as good as the original. In fact I hardly ever expect any sequels to be as good as the originals. However if Yoda has a good fight scene I will probably be quite satisfied!

You're all gonna cry and you know it. Just like your in some sappy little chick flick

Appently its a real tear jerker so bring you hankies!

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:16 pm

Hahaha! A new hope! I get it! Seriously though, no,

man of txt · Post by **man of txt** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:31 pm

Laptron wrote:I don't measure films by their age, but the script is a big factor in any film.

I know I wasn't born when A New Hope first came out, but neither were many of the people I know who love it today were.
I don't think Star Wars is average because it's old and I've never said or implied it.
I have watched them objectively, even with a Star Wars fanatic in the same room, and I really do not see anything in it that would make me cream my pants, stay up all night, play act star wars underneath the stairs or pretend to be a jedi.

2001: A Space Odyssey, now there's a film that influenced.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:57 pm

is he saying that Star Wars wasn't influencial? LAWL why do you think 99% of the movies rely on effects over substance now?

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:09 pm

well here's how it seems. with the first star wars, lucas made something he wanted to make, and hey, turned out he had some talent for making a movie a lot of people connected with. he went on to make a sequel, which they were probably not too confident about as far as success, as sequels have been known to flop quite badly. but lo and behold, it turned out wonderfully. by the time jedi came out, you can basically see that he knew how well it was going to do, and it loses something because of that.

people grew up with the old star wars, and lucas knows that, and I think with the new trilogy he tried to intentionally set it up in such a way that people could grow up with it, making each movie more "mature" and aimed, it appears, at an audience approximately 3 years older than the last one. hey, way to be contrived, lucas. a good film doesn't start with how it's going to be marketed.

but, for all that, I am looking forward to the new movie and curious how it will turn out. I don't have terribly high hopes, but I imagine it'll have some enjoyable parts at least.

Mitsurugi CP · Post by **Mitsurugi CP** » Fri May 13, 2005 11:34 pm

I will go to RotS just so I can make snide remarks about anyone who is wearing a costume.

To be honest, I never understood what made Star Wars such a great movie franchise in the first place. I mean, they're mostly good movies with the exception of Episode I (I didn't have any problems with Epi II), but they've never had anything that really impressed me.

In the end, it's just another movie that will entertain people without making them have to think. I believe that I will go watch Hitchhikers Guide again tonight.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:23 am

Laptron wrote:
Ward wrote:is he saying that Star Wars wasn't influencial? LAWL why do you think 99% of the movies rely on effects over substance now?

99%?

99% of the 10% of films most people know about, perhaps. 99% of films? Are you sure? So out of the list of all the films released this Friday, 99% of them (i.e. all of them) rely on effects over substance:
Friday Night Lights
A Good Woman
The Jacket
The Last Horror Movie
Le Clan
Monster-In-Law
Ong-Bak
Private
Seed of Chucky

I can see that it was a reasonable, well thought through estimate.

There was the Lord of the Rings Trilogy which is overrated by most. Also revitilised and reinvented the blockbuster spectacle. Thanks.

There was Jurassic Park. That, of course, played no part in the rise of special effects in films. All the dinosaurs were obviously real.
Back to the Future had a few good sets to make you believe they were in the future, but the car was real.
The Matrix was about kung-fu. I hardly noticed the effects.

Yep. I should be hailing Lucus as a God for making all of these effects possible today. Without him these stupid, rubbish, shallow films would never have existed. Attack of the Clones. Wow. You could hardly tell they were on a sound stage.

I like being wrong.

I don't think this post even takes a coherent point and sticks with it. This makes it quite wrong automatically. F--

Joei · Post by **Joei** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:46 pm

well lap is a pretentious git who is full of shit

TO · Post by TO » Sat May 14, 2005 6:03 pm

i dunno revenge of the sith looks to be more of the same to me. what i find funny is that many of the things that people complain about with the new movies, the old ones suffered from as well. poor script? check. shoddy acting? yep (with the exception of maybe harrison ford, and james earl jones' voice). stupid annoying character that makes you want to kill someone? yep, what jar jar was to the new trilogy, C3PO was to the older films

regardless im still gonna see it bcos if nothing else, it will be a clinic in visual effects pizazz.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:28 pm

Hmm. Another problem with eps 1 (&2?) was pretty crappy pacing, IMO. That pod race felt endless, for instance. I don't remember getting bored like that while watching the first trilogy.

But what makes the first trilogy "better" is also it came first (or, "how a New Exciting Thing becomes Same Old Rehearsed Shit"...)
That's how even John Williams orchestral songs can get old.
Isn't that the problem with sequels and series in general, BTW? Either they evolve into something entirely different (and fans from the earliest days feel betrayed), or they stay more or less the same and people get bored.

I will still go and watch the movies. Just sit back and enjoy the eye candy (the world design

, and the light saber battles too - nice choregraphy, and nice soundtrack, usually) without thinking too much about everything else.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:33 pm

i still find it amusing that garbo gives any sort of credibility to filmforce.ign

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:50 pm

Joei wrote:well lap is a pretentious git who is full of shit

yeah no fucking shit, although i don't know what a git is or what it does

Joei · Post by **Joei** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:51 pm

it stalks girls. well, lap does.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:15 pm

TO wrote:i dunno revenge of the sith looks to be more of the same to me. what i find funny is that many of the things that people complain about with the new movies, the old ones suffered from as well. poor script? check. shoddy acting? yep (with the exception of maybe harrison ford, and james earl jones' voice). stupid annoying character that makes you want to kill someone? yep, what jar jar was to the new trilogy, C3PO was to the older films

regardless im still gonna see it bcos if nothing else, it will be a clinic in visual effects pizazz.

Eh.....C3PO could be annoying but he was never as in your face annoying as Jar Jar. On the rest I agree. I aslo think all the movies suffer from some pacing problems (there is a middle section in each one that just gets kind of boring), but Episode 2, not 1, was the worst in this respect in my opinion. It was a snorefest followed by an action overdose. In fact, it was episode 2, not 1, that got me on the prequels suck bandwagon, which I adamantly resisted before..

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:05 pm

admittedly, I watched ep1 four times in theatres in 1999. I tried really hard to like it. even until recently, I thought "well, ep1 isn't very good, but I don't think it's as bad as everyone says."

but then I watched it again a few weeks ago for the first time in 6 years and it was considerably worse than I'd even remembered. there were little things I liked about it, and I realized that those were almost always the things that were taken straight from the old movies.

the old movies had bad acting and cheesy writing, but they also had a really weird and incredibly strong charm to them. that sounds like bullshit, but I kid you not, there was something "right" about them, that started going wrong in return of the jedi, and went completely awful in the new trilogy.

speaking of which, I have this book somewhere called the star wars compendium, and it has this excellent "50 reasons why jedi sucks" (it also has 10 reasons it's good at the end, don't worry!!!) which I think was written around the time the special edition movies came out, before phantom menace, which is why they do occasionally express hope that the upcoming new trilogy will redeem star wars.

http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet ... Sucks.html

I dunno, normally I pass these sorts of things off as nerdy whining but whoever wrote this is obviously a huge star wars fan (big enough to publish a star wars compendium, but it is clear from the writing too) and I think it's pretty fair, and funny.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:20 am

I agree with a lot of his complaints, but not the amount of weight he puts into it. Personally, I think the scenes with Vader, Luke, and the Emperor in Jedi are probably the highlight of Star Wars period.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:17 am

isn't that basically what he says too?

I like this bit: "How intensely were the Ewoks marketed? Consider this: Ewok is a household word, despite the fact that it's never once spoken in the film."

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:24 am

Damien wrote:I don't think I'd be able to watch the clone wars catroon, it just looks bad to me D:

somehow I didn't notice this before. I really do suggest giving it a chance. it looked bad to me too (judging by its cover) but fortunately I have a friend who loved it already so it was shown to me, and since then I've bought it and shown it to a couple other people. I even watched it sober once and it was still great! it really is a lot more solid in many ways than the new movies. I even read a great comment in some review that basically said anakin and padme have more character development between them in the non-speaking 4 seconds of screentime together than in both the new star wars movies combined, and I am inclined to agree.

Kage · Post by **Kage** » Sun May 15, 2005 1:17 pm

I refused to be marketed to by the jerk Lucas.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:28 am

having now watched ep2 again (also for the first time since it was in theatres, and I really didn't remember it well) I realize that one of the biggest problems, and probably the reason that ep3 will be the only decent one, is that the clone wars and the events of ep3 are really the only ideas lucas had for prequels, so the first two ended up being a painfully long setup for the third movie.
they have bad plots that really don't draw the viewer in, because there is barely anything to be drawn into, and what plot exists is told in a way that is muddled and harder to follow than it should be.
half of attack of the clones was just "development" of anakin and padme's relationship, and it was some of the worst relationship writing I've ever seen. I have to cringe in almost every exchange of dialogue between them, or when they're rolling around in fields together, or any of that incredibly meaningless tripe the movie is filled with. none of it feels like real love, real emotion, or real people. compare that to the amusing interaction between han and leia in empire strikes back, which doesn't take up most of the movie, isn't gushy, and is consistent with their characters (perhaps aided by their having developed characters to begin with)
admittedly the han/leia stuff does get kind of gushy and dumb in return of the jedi, but I think we are able to get past that to some extent just on merit of their characters having been well set up in the previous films.
episodes 1 and 2 did not have to be crappy drawn-out setup for the ideas that already existed. someone could have come up with really neat ideas that led into episode 3. oh well, they didn't.
I really do hope episode 3 will be a good time, anyway, I really don't want to spend another couple of hours cringing.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:15 am

I watched ROTJ for the first time in like 5 years when the DVD got released and I thought it was pretty much shit. The dialogue was, to be frankly, the worst of the entire OT. The only thing remotely good about it was Luke vs. Vader vs. Palpatine. The rest just stank.

Kage · Post by **Kage** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:52 am

IMHO, one of the key reasons for the success of the first 3 film is Hans Solo and his tongue in cheek one liners. Having said that, Mr. Lucas did say that this trilogy is going to be some dark ones.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:02 am

well, I just watched the second set of clone wars cartoons (the five 15-minute episodes) and they're fucking awesome. you're seriously missing out if you're refusing to watch these for some reason other than general disinterest in all of star wars.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:18 am

I like Totally Spies

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:51 pm

it's animated by genndy tartakovsky

I wasn't gonna watch it, but now that I know that I'll definitely check it

I love the original trilogy but it's probably mostly because of nostalgia... And because strangely the french version has much better dialogues and one liners

+ Harrison Ford =

obviously

I wonder what kids think about the new trilogy, do they love it as much as I loved ep. IV/V/VI when I first watched them ~20years ago??

Or is it just a random serie of SF movies to them??

Anyway, I'm definitely going to check Ep3, probably next thursday, and then I guess I might watch it in theater a second time, but after that I will probably never watch it again, just as I did with Ep1 and 2

As for the tv series, I don't know. Don't think I will watch them but who knows

Anyway, best thing about Star Wars is that the originals are part of our pop culture, and I love seeing references to them such as the ones in Spaced

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:22 pm

I really do believe the original star wars (particularly ep4 and 5) deserve more credit than being good only because of our childhood nostalgia.

there are tons of movies I have wonderful childhood nostalgia for that don't hold up nearly as well, like tron. and don't get me wrong, I think tron's great, but uh... not really.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:55 pm

I really never want to see EP1 &2 again, they bore me stiff and seem to be on Sky Movies all the time

I would have gone to the UK Celebrity Premiere thingy in Leicester Square today but I know it'll be too packed with annoying fanboys.

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:02 pm

smeared ink wrote:I really do believe the original star wars (particularly ep4 and 5) deserve more credit than being good only because of our childhood nostalgia.

Yeah that's also what I want to believe, but I don't trust my objectivity on that

And the fact that I love ep6 as much as ep4 and 5 probably doesn't help

So, objectively, what was so good about the original trilogy?
-Harrison Ford
-John Williams
-puppets
-lightsabers and awesome special effects
-Biggs, Wedge and X-Wings

What else??

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:05 pm

How about characterization, campy love stories (but not to the point of complete ubelievability), a sense of direction (basically no 32432423 battles at the same time and let's attempt to show them ALL) and the lack of sands shenanigans?

Nostalgia has nothing to do with Ep4 and Ep5's qualities. But it certainly has something to do with the love that Ep6 gets. Man that movie sucks!

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:13 pm

But Ewoks

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:43 pm

Ward wrote:How about characterization, campy love stories (but not to the point of complete ubelievability), a sense of direction (basically no 32432423 battles at the same time and let's attempt to show them ALL) and the lack of sands shenanigans?

Nostalgia has nothing to do with Ep4 and Ep5's qualities. But it certainly has something to do with the love that Ep6 gets. Man that movie sucks!

I love ep6 so much

And yeah I agree about characterization, but that's mostly because Han Solo owns me. Other characters aren't that good...

Anyway, ep3. Kill Jar Jar and I'll be satisfied

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon May 16, 2005 4:31 pm

They're still more accurately portrayed than your usual BOOM BOOM WOW SPECIAL FX movies.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Mon May 16, 2005 5:42 pm

One of the great thing about the original movies is that they created whole new worlds. Tatooine the desert planet (and its twin suns

), Hoth the ice planet, Dagobah the swamp/jungle planet, the Cloud City on the gas planet Bespin, and even the Endor moon covered with giant sequoia-like trees (which, though I don't hate Ewoks, would have been soo much cooler if it had been inhabited by Wookies

)... Each of these worlds being populated by intriguing alien creatures.

Another great thing about them is that they feature one of the most charismatic bad guy of all times. And the Imperial March sets the perfect mood.
The whole soundtrack just screams "Epic!" actually. And an epic tale calls for a rather simple story, this is why it doesn't matter much if the characterization is done through classic archetypes. They became classic because they work well. And you can surprise the audience by slightly altering the standards. Leia's character for instance, doesn't exactly fit in the "damzel in distress" part, does she? (There is this great line in the french version when Luke comes to rescue her in her cell in Ep.IV, and before he takes off his helmet, she say something along the lines of "so now they recruit midgets in the Imperial Forces?"

... I don't know what the exact original line was

)

Square Gamer

a new hope for star wars?

a new hope for star wars?

Re: a new hope for star wars?