Kaleido Star Once Again

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:10 pm

Finally got around to see 40 and 41. Loved both immensley. Still my favorite series I've seen since I started not all that long ago. Can't wait for more.

Oh, and Killey:

Does ANYTHING in any way, shape, or form happen between Ken and Sora?

You're free NOT to answer that as so I won't be spoiled, but after his little 'delcaration' in 39 it got me thinking. A yes or no will suffice as well.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:10 pm

I really don't want to spoil anything regarding future episodes of Kaleido Star so I refuse to answer that question.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:34 pm

Thanks, I respect that.

I'm going to keep PRAYING though, that's really the ONLY THING I personally find missing in the series, but it is a rather small matter.

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:44 pm

hmm, I just watched ep 41, and the ending was pretty intense.

When I saw the slap all I could think was -____________________________________-

Seemed like a stupid girl's bitch fight to me that was lame.

Yes, yes, in typical Leftover fashion you're going to explain to me why it was a significant moment and such, but honestly I don't care, even if I tried to understand how May felt (I don't care enough to bother), I still think she's overreacting like a little bitch.

Leon X Sophie/Sora was cool though.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:35 pm

I can't stop watching his sig.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:53 pm

Good call Garbone.

I think she had a right to get angry, but perhaps not so much to feel the need to slap Sora. Any other member of KS would have probably been just as peeved, but with this being May, well, I think she's starting to obsess over how she finally has a rival. Having Sora not want to act out her own Juliet, May saw it as Sora being overly selfish, concetrating on her own goals (even if they are beneficial to most anyone in the long run) and thus very much took it to the heart as she likely also thought that Sora had enough respect for May to go through with it.

I'm more interested in what happened at the end of the episode.

And my sig will be up forever, because Yoshino is the shit.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:15 pm

What I don't like is how the others let May walk all over them, especially earlier on. Leon, okay, but May? Pfft.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:29 pm

I don't think it was so much that they let her walk all over them but that they likely didn't want to be bothered with her, or possibly accepeted her once she was officially part of KS. From the looks of it the entire crew of KS was / is [dwell(ing)] about in pacifism somewhat, save when they REALLLY need to get a point across.

I mean how old are they anyway, old teenagers or young adults?

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:36 pm

Pacifism aka pussyism

Undine · Post by **Undine** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:42 pm

Doc: "...I'm a pacifist."
Caboose: "You're a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "No, dude, that's a pedophile."
Church: "Tucker, I think he means a PACIFIER."
Tucker: "Oh, yeah... right. Man... I was... TOTALLY thinking about something else."
Church: "That's reeeeal classy, Tucker."

.. posted this one bcos I couldn't find the quote where Tucker calls Doc a "pussyfest"

/completely off topic

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:48 pm

I just skipped through episode 41 to refresh my memory in what actually happened.

Personally, I think May is justified in getting angry with Sora although not to the extent to slapping her, however, it's not entirely unexpected with May considering the prior situations she was placed in. May feels as though she has found a good rival in Sora especially after seeing the unfinshed Angel Act. She is well aware of Sora's skills and that had she completed that Act she would have won the competition. To May, having Sora reject her challenge is like Sora no longer acknowledges her as a rival (even though I don't think Sora really considers May as a rival in the first place) and that's what really angers her, in my opinion. It's like spending your time in bettering yourself in one particular thing and the one person that you want to test yourself against doesn't accept. It really is like a slap to the face.

I particularly liked this episode as it shows a huge comeback for Sora, which is sorely needed after everything she's been through lately. She comes back and overcomes the hardships that May and Leon have created in her own way and that was far more gratifying to see then having Sora go out of her way to overcome this. Plus, it was about time that we begin to see new sides to Leon.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:05 am

Word.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:42 am

Should we leave all spoilers from this point on unmarked? If not then I'm going to have to do some editing in my previous post.

TheDarkOne · Post by **TheDarkOne** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:40 am

i saved you the trouble

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:43 am

lalala currently downloading ep40-41. finally catching up.

yea I know you guys already said this in earlier pages of this thread but goddamn, I kinda feel like crying for sora after ep39. But the other half of me wants to kick her in the shins because she's been such a half assed character lately. Of course that's all character development and stuff.

And she continually disappointed layla, which is even sadder.

but yah i'm REALLY hooked on this series now.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:31 pm

*decides to light a fire for the hell of it*

Well, KS is entertaining and mildly addicting, yes, but the fun factor is the best thing going for it, since nothing else really excels, save perhaps for the animation. If you're going to argue for the cast, I'll admit that it's expansive and colorful but ultimately pretty shallow, and character interactions are pointed but repetitive. Hell, at this point I might give the nod to Stellvia in terms of characters, though I like KS more. Shallow peripheral characters deprive the viewer of a real chance to connect with them, so I can't see how "some of you" get so intensely into it.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:40 pm

Stellvia seems a lot more empty if you ask me.

I think KS just grew on me. The first time I saw KS, I was unimpressed and I thought the whole challenge the golden phoenix part was meh. But I've gotten to 41 and I'm dying to see how it'll end and how she'll get through this 'critical' part of her life.

And I agree with you when you say the majority of the character interactions are pretty blah. Ken, for instance, just sucks. (Or maybe it's because Sora continually pushes him away) I think the ONLY characters that I really felt a connection with was Layla and Rosetta. Although I don't really like how they gave an entire episode focusing completely on Rosetta and/or Marion and then they push them off the main cast again to focus on Sora.

Aside from that, just finished 41... I thought the Leon part was pretty lame, it seemed totally out of his character. I was hoping he was gonna get hit by that car but nop.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:09 am

Doom wrote:*decides to light a fire for the hell of it*

Well, KS is entertaining and mildly addicting, yes, but the fun factor is the best thing going for it, since nothing else really excels, save perhaps for the animation. If you're going to argue for the cast, I'll admit that it's expansive and colorful but ultimately pretty shallow, and character interactions are pointed but repetitive. Hell, at this point I might give the nod to Stellvia in terms of characters, though I like KS more. Shallow peripheral characters deprive the viewer of a real chance to connect with them, so I can't see how "some of you" get so intensely into it.

Doom:
What specific characters do you think are shallow? I can agree with certain parts of your statement if your thinking about the general supporting cast like Mia, Anna, Fool, etc. However, if you start referring to May, Sora, Layla, Yuri, and Leon than I completely disagree with you.

I think Kaleido Star has way more going for it other than the animation, and fun factor. What makes Kaleido Star so good, in my opinion, is the characterization but mostly the characterization of the main characters. This is where I partially agree with you because the supporting cast to Kaleido Star is lacking in comparison to Stellvia and while you do see them grow since the beginning of the series they are missing a certain connection with the viewer. They only serve a supporting role and don't stand out as much as I would like them to. However, I can fully understand why such decisions are made since the main characters are extremely well developed and any outside focus on other characters would slightly hinder that development.

Personally, all of my favorite characters within Kaleido Star are the main characters and if this means having a weaker supporting cast then I'll gladly except the exchange. I've been able to relate to each of the main characters personalities and understand what their thought process or feelings is when they are confronted with a certain situation, which is more important than having relatable supporting characters although it would be nice if they were.

Arashi:
Was Leon's actions really out of character? Obviously, there is a reasoning behind all of this and the series does explain it later on but I just don't understand why you would think it seemed "lame". I'm not trying to be an ass or anything but I just wanted to know what your opinion on that was. I think you'll really enjoy this last half of the series as all of the characters undergo a major change and the development really shines. Though, I have the feeling that I might be setting people's expectations too high for this last half of the series but I guess most of you expect this from me.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:20 am

To me, Leon is just the type of guy who's cool and collected/unemotional and when he got all crazy and was obviously in denial, it was just too big of a change. I think it would have been better if the character change had a better transition. From what I saw, it just was Leon staring at Sora from afar and then all the sudden he went nuts.

I guess the lame part is just me finding it really cheesy when he confused Sora with Sophie. And then you have the hanging question of "who's sophie?!?!"

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:40 am

Okay, if you want me to categorize the characters, it'd go something like this:

Layla > Sora > Yuri >>>>>>> May > Leon > Rosetta > everyone else.

Here's my problem with the second half of the show: most of it so far (up to 41) seems a tad forced and quite dragged out compared to the first half. May and Leon aren't quite mirror images of Layla and Yuri, but they are there essentially to usurp those roles, and my problem with their characterizations is that they seem to be bending over backwards in order to outdo the conflicts of the first half, and they certainly haven't convinced me. They're trying to up the ante by focusing more on the Sora-May-Leon triangle, reducing everyone else to background decoration. May and Leon aren't getting character development; they're merely going back and forth and round and round with Sora in a reactionary chain of causation. Maybe it's just me, but Layla and Yuri are vastly deeper characters and much more compelling. Then we have the supporting cast. We all remember how some of the supporting characters had their own filler eps in the first half of the show, and these were for the most part rather enjoyable and gave a bit more flavor to the supporting characters, and rightfully so, since from the beginning you get the impression that KS is an ensemble piece. However, how much do we have in the second half? A single ep for Rosetta? Everyone else standing on the sidelines going "HIDOIIIIII" when May owns an annoyingly despondent Sora?

So to recap: more compelling leads in the first half, IN ADDITION TO a sharper focus on the supporting characters. Bottom line: eps 42-51 better be fucking amazing.

The Leon thing at the end of 41 is irritatingly cliche and comes out of nowhere. It's going to take a lot more than a usual love-from-past-who-seems-to-be-reincarnated-in-current-heroine! thing to win me over. It might not lean that way, but I certainly am getting that impression, and it's leaving a sourass taste in my mouth.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:47 am

Arashi wrote:To me, Leon is just the type of guy who's cool and collected/unemotional and when he got all crazy and was obviously in denial, it was just too big of a change. I think it would have been better if the character change had a better transition. From what I saw, it just was Leon staring at Sora from afar and then all the sudden he went nuts.

I guess the lame part is just me finding it really cheesy when he confused Sora with Sophie. And then you have the hanging question of "who's sophie?!?!"

Hmmm...There could have been a better transition into Leon's actions but they've been building up this change since Sora was unable to complete the Angel's Act. You should have notice a reaction from Leon at that time. My initial reaction when I first saw that was that this is just a prelude to something bigger later on and of course it was.

You'll probably find it less lame when everything is explained.

EDIT:

Doom wrote: Here's my problem with the second half of the show: most of it so far (up to 41) seems a tad forced and quite dragged out compared to the first half.

I don't think the events were necessarily dragged out but I can somewhat understand the forced part. I wouldn't go as far and say that it was forced but something was definitely needed to outdo the events of the first season. They obviously needed to up the ante of everything in order to start things off strong and I, personally, felt that they acheived that. The first season gets off easy since it has to build everything up first but the second season has everything established already so prolonging things would really have felt that things were being dragged out. Diving straight into things was a much wiser move, in my opinion, and allows us to get right back into what is the essence of Kaleido Star.

Doom wrote:May and Leon aren't quite mirror images of Layla and Yuri, but they are there essentially to usurp those roles, and my problem with their characterizations is that they seem to be bending over backwards in order to outdo the conflicts of the first half, and they certainly haven't convinced me. They're trying to up the ante by focusing more on the Sora-May-Leon triangle, reducing everyone else to background decoration. May and Leon aren't getting character development; they're merely going back and forth and round and round with Sora in a reactionary chain of causation.

I have never once considered May or Leon as people to replace Layla and Yuri as neither of them have the capabilities to fill such roles in the first place. They are simply their own characters and to think otherwise is somewhat ridiculous, in my opinion. I can definietly understand why you think that Sora is just in a "chain of causation" but I can't quite agree with this. I do agree that as a result of focusing on these three characters the series has forced every other character into a background and therefore everyone has gotten considerably less development than usual. Again, I am gladly willing to except that if it means I can have better developed main cahracters and since the supporting cast didn't quite capture my attention in the first season it doesn't bother me that much.

Doom wrote: So to recap: more compelling leads in the first half, IN ADDITION TO a sharper focus on the supporting characters. Bottom line: eps 42-51 better be fucking amazing.

The Leon thing at the end of 41 is irritatingly cliche and comes out of nowhere. It's going to take a lot more than a usual love-from-past-who-seems-to-be-reincarnated-in-current-heroine! thing to win me over. It might not lean that way, but I certainly am getting that impression, and it's leaving a sourass taste in my mouth.

Episodes 42-51 will definitely make up for any doubts you had with the second season and I think most people will be pleased with the series once everything is done and over. Episode 41's ending did not come out of nowhere, as the show has hinted on several occasions before that something bigger was about to come. Granted, it could have been transitioned better but I wouldn't say that it was abrupt. I don't want to comment on your prediction since it would decrease the level of enjoyment when everything is explained in future episodes.

I think my overall appreciation for the characters at this point is because I have already finished the series, therefore, everything that has been done up to this point makes sense already.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:56 am

I'd join in, but Killey really has said all I wanted to, and more so because he's finished the series already.

My ONLY gripe with the show is the realtionship with Ken and Sora. That's it. I am praying something happens between the two of them. That's all I want because I don't have a problem with much anything else.

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:33 am

My only gripe about this show is that I don't think I'll miss it in the slightest when the fansubs finally finish the show :[

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:41 am

There's nothing wrong with that ;p.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:12 am

Obviously your "essence" of KS is different from mine.

I thought it was clear that the whole filling roles thing was meant loosely. Obviously the entire situation is different, but you still have a second round of both a male and female "antagonist", so to speak, opposite Sora.

I do agree that as a result of focusing on these three characters the series has forced every other character into a background and therefore everyone has gotten considerably less development than usual. Again, I am gladly willing to except that if it means I can have better developed main cahracters and since the supporting cast didn't quite capture my attention in the first season it doesn't bother me that much.

Your choice. KS initially came off as an ensemble piece to me, and it didn't deliver, but neither did the supposed "exchange" for more character development. I barely think that there's more to May's character, or Leon's, at this point, after having watched 10-15 episodes since their introduction. They interact a lot, yes, but to me, their personalities are shallow. The extended conflict may be setting things up for the finale, sure, but it couldn't have hurt them to let the supporting characters elbow their way into the action a bit more often. I mean, how many times do we need to be shown that Leon is Mr. Super Cold Talented Dude Guy Sugoi Guy Who Flips Off Sora And May On A Regular Basis Guy?

Granted, it could have been transitioned better but I wouldn't say that it was abrupt.

I don't know what your definition of "abrupt" is then.

Everything that I've said is only based on my having watched through 41, obviously. Perhaps it was a bad note to end off on. Whatever the case, I am rather nonplussed and will wait to see how things turn out before making the final call on things. I'm not heading into the final quarter of the show on bad faith, but this is a testament to how much I ended up liking the first half and not having liked the second half as much thus far, perhaps due to exceedingly high expectations. In no way am I not enjoying the show, but it hasn't climbed any personal lists since ep 26, so to speak.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:32 am

Doom wrote: Your choice. KS initially came off as an ensemble piece to me, and it didn't deliver, but neither did the supposed "exchange" for more character development. I barely think that there's more to May's character, or Leon's, at this point, after having watched 10-15 episodes since their introduction. They interact a lot, yes, but to me, their personalities are shallow. The extended conflict may be setting things up for the finale, sure, but it couldn't have hurt them to let the supporting characters elbow their way into the action a bit more often. I mean, how many times do we need to be shown that Leon is Mr. Super Cold Talented Dude Guy Sugoi Guy Who Flips Off Sora And May On A Regular Basis Guy?

It's completely understandable if you want better developed supporting characters and in most cases I would completely agree with you. However, since my favorite characters are the main characters I would rather have the show focus on them then spend a few episodes developing characters that I really don't care too much for in the first place. It definitely wouldn't have hurt the show if they spent more time developing the other characters like Stellvia did but I don't think it was necessary in this case. Again, depending on personal taste you either like or dislike this and in no way I'm trying to prove you wrong or anything.

Doom wrote:
Granted, it could have been transitioned better but I wouldn't say that it was abrupt.
I don't know what your definition of "abrupt" is then.

Well, maybe it was a poor choice of words on my behalf but I just don't like how people are saying that Leon's actions at the end of episode 41 came out of nowhere when there were signs of such possible events occuring in previous episodes. Granted, it wasn't completely obvious but I just feel that people arn't even considering what happened in previous episodes when they saw what happened at the end of episode 41.

Leftover wrote:I'd join in, but Killey really has said all I wanted to, and more so because he's finished the series already.

Slacker! Am I the only one who has to defend the second half of the season like this!

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:27 am

It was fun though, no?

But fair enough, like I said, all I can do is bide my time until FR decides to stop being slowasses...

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:58 am

Well, the thread was pretty much dead other than the occasional "OMG! This episode owned!" or "OMG! This episode sucked!" comment. I thought it would be more interesting to actually discuss something relevant to the series and get more people into it. Unfortuantely, the only people who even put in the effort was you, Arashi, and I.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:22 am

Fuck man, you really did say everything I wanted to. It would have been pointless for me to have said anything, especially since I really don't have any qualms with the show or how it's being handled. On top of which, you've finished the series and I have not, so bothering to say anything on the matter would make me more of a fanboy then I obviously already am.

:\

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:24 am

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:32 am

Leftover wrote:Fuck man, you really did say everything I wanted to. It would have been pointless for me to have said anything, especially since I really don't have any qualms with the show or how it's being handled. On top of which, you've finished the series and I have not, so bothering to say anything on the matter would make me more of a fanboy then I obviously already am.

$:\$

You must take your fanboism to an all new level!
All kidding aside, I just needed someone else to back me up here since everyone seemed to be bashing the second season from the moment it started.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:34 am

Nah just me... and Garbo's just being Garbo.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:08 am

Oh don't get me wrong, I like the 2nd season. I think if it went as smoothly as the 1st season, it'd be very boring. I just don't like May, or Leon. At all! But I guess every anime has to have one of those characters.

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:08 am

Hay I said I liked the ending of the latest ep

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:05 am

http://chibineko.student.utwente.nl/fre ... vi.torrent

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:57 pm

pretty good ep, though as usual i'm a little less tolerant of the sappy bits (aka the end of the ep)

Seta · Post by **Seta** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:02 am

43 might be the episode Mikey has been longing for.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:56 am

indeed

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:48 pm

I'm pretty annoyed that Sora hasn't slept with Mr Policeman yet.

Anyway, second half of KS 43:

OH LOOK ^_________^^^__^_^^__^^_______^_^_^^

ITS SO HAPPY EVERYONES HAPPY PLEASE BE HAPPY? PLEASE? LOOK HOW CAN YOU NOT BE HAPPY WHEN EVERYONES SO HAPPY ^______________________________^_^^^_^^

HAPPY! BE HAPPY..NOW!

I think I'm gonna be sick.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:48 pm

I'm downloading 42 now

.

Where's 43?

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:30 am

@ 42

&

@ 43 preview.

That had better be a serious episode (yeah ok).

Seta · Post by **Seta** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:47 am

Garbo wrote:I'm pretty annoyed that Sora hasn't slept with Mr Policeman yet.

Anyway, second half of KS 43:

OH LOOK ^_________^^^__^_^^__^^_______^_^_^^

ITS SO HAPPY EVERYONES HAPPY PLEASE BE HAPPY? PLEASE? LOOK HOW CAN YOU NOT BE HAPPY WHEN EVERYONES SO HAPPY ^______________________________^_^^^_^^

HAPPY! BE HAPPY..NOW!

I think I'm gonna be sick.

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:50 am

I WANT HOT SORA NUN AND HEART PALIPTATING KEN ACTION GOING ON.

Killey · Post by **Killey** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:42 am

I have to admit that the second half of KS episode 43 was quite cheesy. It looks like everyone has finally reached the point where the storyline is becoming more serious and everything is building up to the dramatic conclusion. It only gets better from here people and I can't wait to see what everyone thinks of episode 46.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:59 am

http://chibineko.student.utwente.nl/fre ... vi.torrent

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:03 am

Something told me there'd be a new episode today.

Just a gut feeling.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:12 am

Okay... KS 43 was officially one of the worst eps, if not THE worst ep, of the series.

So... fucking lame...

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:14 am

Ken and Sora totally connected am i rite

Leftover · Post by **Leftover** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:17 am

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree.

Even if the performing was cool, the whole episfoe was pretty much pointless, and the one thing I was looking foward to the most was just shat on, shot at, and kicked away.

Ah well.

Arashi · Post by **Arashi** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:15 pm

filler episode get? meh I think I'll finish downloading gankutsuou first and then get this.

Square Gamer

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