Suikoden V discussion

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:54 pm

Atlus needs to concentrate on that Ogre Battle game they're never going to make.

Fei Ayanami · Post by **Fei Ayanami** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:40 pm

Ogre Battle Forever

At least Duke Nukem Forever eventually got released and everybody loved it the end.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:58 pm

RDM wrote:Atlus needs to concentrate on that Ogre Battle game they're never going to make.

Atlus didn't make Ogre Battle. They just published it. Square owns the rights to Ogre Battle now. They remade Tactics Ogre on the psp.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:09 pm

Tactics Ogre can kick rocks!

Sounds like Square needs to cut the "Final Fantasy" crap and make with some real games where you wait for units you only vaguely control to slowly plod across a massive, barely-interactive map.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:47 pm

Did you play Ogre Battle 64? I hear it's the bees knees and way better than the original.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:58 pm

Sell Suikoden to Falcom so the Kiseki team can have a go.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:02 pm

I like Ys and all but it's not a good example of a company making actual progress

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:38 pm

I would probably trust Atlus more than most to make a game in the spirit of the originals if they got the rights. I would expect Nintendo to gladly accept the rights but perhaps do nothing with them.

RDM · Post by **RDM** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:38 pm

HKK wrote:

Did you play Ogre Battle 64? I hear it's the bees knees and way better than the original.

Can't tell if sarcastic.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:15 pm

Honestly only way I'd jump on new Suikoden made by anyone not the Konami team is if the old team worked on it. Atlus for instance makes completely different games and Joei suggesting the Tales team made me literally shudder.

Lord Golbez wrote:I would probably trust Atlus more than most to make a game in the spirit of the originals if they got the rights. I would expect Nintendo to gladly accept the rights but perhaps do nothing with them.

Nintendo has a pretty good dedication to their RPGs. Fire Emblem is cleaning up shop and they've been pushing Xenoblade and Dragon Quest tons.

Asaroth Larot wrote:I like Ys and all but it's not a good example of a company making actual progress

What do you mean by this? Look into the Trails series, which I mentioned. What do you mean by progress?

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:28 pm

Well supposedly Falcom puts out a Ys game every year without fail...but at the same time theyre really just spinning their wheels and release the same 3 Ys games over and over. And probably any individual Ys game isnt even going to match the content in Suikoden 1.

I just dont see Falcom being able to handle consistently putting out Suikoden.

I havent played Trails so....that might destroy this entire argument.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:34 pm

Asaroth Larot wrote:Well supposedly Falcom puts out a Ys game every year without fail...but at the same time theyre really just spinning their wheels and release the same 3 Ys games over and over. And probably any individual Ys game isnt even going to match the content in Suikoden 1.

I just dont see Falcom being able to handle consistently putting out Suikoden.

I havent played Trails so....that might destroy this entire argument.

Every year...without fail? There are only 9 Ys games: Ys I-VIII and Ys Origin. Though they did remake III into a totally different game. Ys VIII is the last released Ys game and the series is 30 years old.

Your criticism makes no sense. The Ys games they keep releasing are Ys 1 and II. It's like being mad at SE for releasing Final Fantasy 1-6 on as many platforms as possible.

This is without mentioning the Xanadu series and Trails series. Pick up Xanadu Next on Steam or something or give Trails in the Sky 1 a shot.

I highly suggest you look up the Trails series. I've been slowly going through them.

Here's a trailer for Trails of Cold Steel 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9g8YI7zdU

Trails is dubbed as highly similar to Suikoden. They are dialogue heavy RPGs, where each game takes place in a different part of the world.

Good place to start to read up on the series:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/loh/loh6.htm

We're getting Trails in the Sky 3 this summer to complete the trilogy.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:40 pm

The Trails series is quite good. I don't know how well it matches Suikoden, but certainly no worse than what Atlus does and probably a little bit closer to the mark. I don't expect any company including Konami making a Suikoden game now would make it quite the same as the originals, but some might be better than others. Atlus does make different types of games, but they at least do a quality job and might manage.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:48 pm

According to Murayama, the original team for I and II meets every year.

I hope one day they can continue Suikoden again. With the recent successes for previously niche Japanese games, I hope they can convince Konami to sell the series to someone who will allow their vision to be granted justice.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:14 pm

Every year...without fail? There are only 9 Ys games: Ys I-VIII and Ys Origin. Though they did remake III into a totally different game. Ys VIII is the last released Ys game and the series is 30 years old.

Well Im pretty sure I read that without fail on hardcore gaming's article on Ys. I was going to go try to find the quote from the site but after failing to find it on the first page and seeing just how much text Id have to check I gave up. Even if it did say that, at the time I read it 7 had just come out. I didnt even know there was an Ys 8 until you just mentioned it.

Your criticism makes no sense. The Ys games they keep releasing are Ys 1 and II. It's like being mad at SE for releasing Final Fantasy 1-6 on as many platforms as possible.

Well Im not MAD about it just saying they havent moved on much when theyve had 3 decades. Also you make it sound like they are simple ports. The rereleases of Ys are noticeable upgrades each time. I dont consider Super Mario All Stars a port. Also 3 isnt the only one to get a significant gameplay overhaul. Didnt they release a version of Ys 1 and 2 where the gameplay was closer to Ark of Napishtim?

Once again not complaining, but i have to imagine we'd be mad at Square
if they were just now getting to 8 because they wouldnt leave 1-3 alone

The idea was to look for someone who would consistently move the Suikoden series forward.

I mean there are definitely worse choices than Falcom. Id pick them over Capcom. Breath of Fire 6 anyone?

I highly suggest you look up the Trails series. I've been slowly going through them.

I have a list of every game Im supposed to look into and buy when it gets cheap enough. Yours and Golbez's recommendation is good enough for me. Guess Ill put it on the list

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:27 pm

Breath of Fire 6 happened and it represents the worst of my fears for if/when a Suikoden VI is made.

Suikoden VI Pachinko would be the most likely Konami equivalent to what Capcom did.

Asaroth Larot wrote: I have a list of every game Im supposed to look into and buy when it gets cheap enough. Yours and Golbez's recommendation is good enough for me. Guess Ill put it on the list

Well, I've actually only played Trails of Cold Steel, but if that's a good measure of the series, then it's a good one.

Joei · Post by **Joei** » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:54 am

Trails in the Sky First Chapter took my years to get through even though it is great.

The amount I played gave me a good foundation when playing Cold Steel 1 and 2. I really enjoyed those and am looking forward to 3.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:26 pm

I think I got halfway through Tierkreis before I got tired of the bonkers plot and the shallow combat which really suffers from being heavily watered down and going from six characters to four. I also just can't play long games on portables.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:59 pm

Suikoden IV also had only 4 characters. That was bad too.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:17 pm

I've never felt like I missed out on anything by not having played IV.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:06 am

Doom wrote:I've never felt like I missed out on anything by not having played IV.

You missed being depressed for a couple of weeks

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:48 pm

But yeah, "Suikoden Heroes" might be a good way to revive the franchise, if Konami ever gets in its right mind again (unlikely).

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:58 pm

I think nothing short of the president dying is going to make a big enough change.

I didnt see you guys talking about it, but I assume everyone knows how toxic the working conditions in that company have become.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:07 pm

Konami put out Bomberman for Switch, which really surprised me. What surprises me even more? They give enough shit to want to fix it and have even put out a 60 fps patch and fixed other problems. Crazy. This from Konami in 2017.

Suikoden having a Musou makes....surprisingly a lot of sense. I'd play the shit out of that.

Joei · Post by **Joei** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:48 pm

I don't want a shit mobile game or musou game. Make it a Suikoden game or don't bother and just let the series die. I'll still have Trails games!

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:09 pm

Im at the point where Id be somewhat happy to get a Junko Kawano Suikoden 6...

This is where Golbez recoils in horror

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:53 am

Ugh....yeah, we don't need that one. I'd rather have a Miyamoto made Suikoden (that's not to imply he makes bad games, but just that he's not a good fit for Suikoden).

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:15 am

Shigeru Miyamoto? Did you mean to say Murayama?

just because I would hypothetically hand it to Nintendo doesnt mean I want mean I want Miyamoto himself touching it.

The guy may be a legend but everything he's done implies storytelling is not in his wheelhouse. Any game that he's known for that has story is by a lackey and he seems pretty anti plot in interviews

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:28 am

I wasn't implying that you were suggesting Miyamoto, by suggesting Nintendo. I was just trying to come up with a pretty out there suggestion of someone who wouldn't be a good fit, but who I'd still prefer over letting Junko Kawano touch Suikoden again.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Mon May 01, 2017 5:42 am

Golbez, Did you play through Tactics?

Do you remember how Tactics was supposed to redeem 4?

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:08 am

Tactics redeems IV in a way because it actually gives the characters from IV and the Island Nations some depth. Also it's very Fire Emblem esque. Great game.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Mon May 01, 2017 6:33 am

Wow. Wasnt expecting a positive response to that.

Yeah I kinda like Tactics too. But it has some serious problems.

If they removed permadeath from the game I'd probably straight up recommend it.

All the really fun characters are permadeath susceptible and it's so easy to get cheap shotted

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon May 01, 2017 8:04 am

In my opinion, the only way in which Tactics "redeems" IV is that it has better gameplay, which is barely enough to redeem itself, let alone a different game.

The story is actually worse than the story of IV, which I kind of feel like you almost have to be trying to write a bad story at that point. There may be scenes that add some depth to character from IV, but the lame ridiculousness of the central plot overwhelms such minor contributions. The difference between Tactics and Suikoden IV is I actually enjoyed playing Tactics, but I was still left saying "WTF was this mess of a story?" by the time I finished it,

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Mon May 01, 2017 8:07 am

Iskas is a total poorly written over the top mustache twirler. I cant decide if Im mad about it or find it oddly hilarious

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon May 01, 2017 9:23 am

Maybe I'll play it again someday and see if I can enjoy it with the perspective of trying to enjoy the story for campiness and see if that works for me.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue May 02, 2017 6:45 am

It isn't very good. Just play pretty much any Fire Emblem instead.

Joei · Post by **Joei** » Tue May 02, 2017 9:39 am

I didn't get that far into Tactics because it isn't very good. Perhaps it's because it is set in the same area as Suikoden 4 which we already know is not interesting. The gameplay didn't save it.