SG Games of The Year 2G6

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:58 am

Bemani can go into puzzle and fighting can go into action

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:02 am

zelda tp

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:27 am

Damien wrote:You probably were until Naki came along

Someone I've met that you haven't...?
NevAer!

Bemani can go into puzzle and fighting can go into action

Bemani are more Action games (Rhythm Action games if you want a cleaner subcategory). Fighting games are also action games. Aaaaand... shmups are *also* action games ;p Basically, Adrian plays mostly action games

(As do I, tbh)

Time to quit pussying abaaaaht and choose your fave game of 2G6 Adrian!

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:32 am

I was joking with the Bemani in Puzzle comment

naki · Post by **naki** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:35 am

Chi wrote:
Damien wrote:You probably were until Naki came along

Someone I've met that you haven't...?
NevAer!

I haven't been to a meet in about 3 years, you're going to have to remind me which one we met at xD

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:46 am

Godknows... it was some time in 2G3, I think but not sure which one. It was in Namcot, though, I know that much. And Myst's Extreme was still there, and hadn't become the Piracy Machine yet.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:47 am

Damien wrote:Bemani can go into puzzle and fighting can go into action

Seriously, Chris, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The only similarity I can see between some bemani games and some puzzle games is that stuff is falling down (or going up) on the screen. That's purely cosmetic and hardly relevant at all: only of the fact the game is fast-paced and requires some eye-hand/feet/voice/whatever coordination. Well, duh, most action games are. Actually the button mashing involved in Pop&Music is more reminiscent to me of pulling out a 10 hit combo in Tekken, than handling blocks in Tetris. And yet it's something different again, since the entire thing is scripted. Music games need a category of their own. That is all.

On the other hand, I agree fighting is definitely action, but you might as well have separate categories for shooters (test aiming skills, + using the - usually vast, and 3D - environment to dodge, ambush, etc. And they involve it's many opponents at the same time) and fighting games (environment is smaller, fight is usually one on one, and the game requires pulling out complex button sequences at the right moment - determined by observing the opponent's body stance). Actually it's mostly a difference in scale, I guess:
Long range action => large environment, it's many enemies, importance of their (and your) location on a more or less complex map => tactical warfare stuff
Short range action => fighting arena, limited number of allies/opponents at the same time, enemy's location still somewhat important, but less complex, and enemy's body stance/attitude may matter more
Both are action, but at opposite ends of the spectrum. And I'd say platformers are definitely a different subcategory: large environment, it's many enemies... Yet usually short-range action... but a relatively large array of semi-acrobatic moves at your disposal to compensate (jump, run, and jump again). Actually in those I'd say the environment itself is an enemy, quite often. Falling in bottomless pits, and destroying blocks (and harvesting goodies from them), that's what Mario does, and that's what platformers are all about.
Action is such a vague term. Kicking and Punching, Shooting and Dodging, Running and Jumping, it's all action, but some games clearly focus only on one of these sub-categories... just because it's difficult to find an efficient control scheme that allows you to do all of the above in the same game, I guess?

Even in games blending genres, one of the 3 will usually be prevalent.

Edit: damn, too slow, cross-posting FTW... That's why I tend to play RPGs?

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:53 am

Damien wrote:I was joking with the Bemani in Puzzle comment

I was wondering ;p

Anyway...

Alice is advocating the "every subgenre needs its own category" school of thought. This may lead to some categories having very little to choose between in terms of number of games. In the same way that I came third place in a martial aerts tournament 2 years ago on the grounds that there were only 4 entrants for my category, so winning a category like that is rather unfulfilling ;p

I'm avocating the "less is more: generic top level genre categories and mnotable exceptions (based on demand or number of games fitting the subcategroy) only plx" school of thought.

The ideal solution is somewhere inbetween, I reck!

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:10 am

I see your point, but problem is, some people only play games from one specific sub-category. I emphasized these ones because IRL they tend to have a pretty different fan-base (contrary to say, A-RPG, T-RPG, D-RPG... that tend to appeal to the same people). Having Pop&Music compete in the same league as Halo isn't really fair, as Bemani games and FPS don't exactly appeal to the same # of fags (and obviously here, Halo doesn't stand a chance

). This would introduce a bias in the result: not relevant of how appealing each game is, individually, but of how popular their own sub-category is.

Questionmarktarius · Post by **Questionmarktarius** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:12 am

Random categories:

PS2/3 GOTY: Okami
It's an impossibly rare miracle of looking very pretty, and being a really great game at the same time.

Portable GOTY: Final Fantasy III
Conclusive proof that a game's mechanics don't have to be painstakingly convoluted just for the sake of being painstakingly convoluted. FF3 looks like a PSX/N64 game, and plays like a NES/SNES game - which equals perfection.

Dissapointment of the year: Disgaea 2
Several, several times does this game fail the "I want to reach into the television and throttle that goddamn idiot" test. Everything in the presentation is a complete and total checklist of "most irritating RPG cliches ever" - complete with the abiguously-homosexual protagonist, ice-queen bitch love/hate-interest, annoyingly saccharine loli sidekick, irritating 'catchphrase' character ("zam!"), mediocre villian, and a "what a twist!" ending that would make M. Night Shyamalan blush.
Only after the excrutiating eyebleeder plot is over does the game find the "WTF?" Disgaea groove again, but getting there is just unbearable..

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:23 am

Oh, yeah, and the genre categorization itself might not be that relevant, really. Why not a platform categorization (console, portable, arcade), and/or a "best story", "best graphics", "best music", "best level design", etc. categorization (Oscar style)?
(obviously, I'm probably just arguing to avoid thinking about the fact I haven't played that many games this year

)

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:50 am

Questionmarktarius wrote:Dissapointment of the year: Disgaea 2
Several, several times does this game fail the "I want to reach into the television and throttle that goddamn idiot" test. Everything in the presentation is a complete and total checklist of "most irritating RPG cliches ever" - complete with the abiguously-homosexual protagonist, ice-queen bitch love/hate-interest, annoyingly saccharine loli sidekick, irritating 'catchphrase' character ("zam!"), mediocre villian, and a "what a twist!" ending that would make M. Night Shyamalan blush.
Only after the excrutiating eyebleeder plot is over does the game find the "WTF?" Disgaea groove again, but getting there is just unbearable..

I agree on the fact that the plot is super cliché and lame but it's still the only decent tactical RPG I've played in years...

Awesome gameplay ftw

But yeah, we need a new FFT I think...

As for the deskcushion on categories, Squaregamer being an RPGs site I do think that not having at least one RPG category is

But then again maybe I'm saying that because to me console RPGs are closer to Strategy Games than to Adventure Games and I don't understand how Adventure Games and RPGs can be put in the same category... So yeah, just ignore my comment and count my votes for Disgaea 2 and Suikoden V in the strategy category

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:42 am

Entr0pi3 wrote:
Damien wrote:Bemani can go into puzzle and fighting can go into action
Seriously, Chris, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Again, it was a joke

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:03 pm

Hm, you know what... I've been thinking about this whole categorization stuff, and nobody really asked the big essential question anyone should ask themselves when designing a model: what's the point? of sub-dividing the VG-space into categories? and of sorting/rating games released/played this year? What's this GOTY thing? Is it a poll? A meme? A review? A competition???
If you asked me, I'd rather focus on the informative nature of the whole thing - the competition aspect being largely secondary in my mind: what memorable games got released (& played by SG people => community input) this year, what kind of games where they, what made them stand out, etc. That way, we'd obtain a broad (Xmas shopping?) list of recommended games, potentially of interest for about anyone. From a user perspective, perfect to quickly spot games you may have missed, and may like (that's what tags/categories would be for)

So, my suggestion for a Games Of The Year protocol:
1) nominations => everybody gives a list of games they played and think are worth of interest, with optional tags (much better than some arbitrary questionable categorization), such as "portable", "great plot", "RPG", "big let-down", etc. => anything that makes the game somewhat stand-out. Can also be summed up in a paragraph, like QMark did. At that point I suggest letting people chose their preferred way of input (though something somewhat structured is obviously preferable, to make the sorting things out bit easier. But grades/ranks are not really necessary at that point, IMO)
2) Sorting categories out. Maybe overlapping (often happens with tags: several, perpendicular classifications coexist). Maybe hierarchical (adding subcategories if we have it's many games in a category... or regrouping categories to balance things out if they don't have enough games). At the end of the day, I personally think the concept of tags reflect things quite well (also allows genre-crossing)
3) Sorting games within these categories? Here we can start having votes and such. And a competition of some sort. eg: vote for best shooter and best fighting game... then have them fight to decide of the action game of the year

... Like a tournament, or something?

This is just a quick idea, but I definitely think two or three steps are required. And so far, at nomination stage, strict categories are not relevant. And consequently neither are ranking, since to compare individual rankings, they should follow the exact same grid.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:10 pm

no need for all that planning, since the GOTY is Zelda TP followed by Gears of War.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:24 pm

One Game to rule them all, One Game to find them,
One Game to bring them all and in the darkness bind them, uh?

The GOTY concept, under it's current form, is sooo last millenium - representative of its obsolete, feudal client/server mentality.
My suggestion would make it more distributed, collaborative, P2P, Web2.0 and shit - now that's 2G6 [spoiler]This message was brought to you by the Iron Union commie bunch

[/spoiler]

Also, if only for grammar sake, I demand this thread be renamed "SG Games of The Year 2G6"

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:43 pm

Wish granted

You can run the GoTY next year, if you're around and want to

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:59 pm

The tag system would make more sense indeed

And Ward, think about us poor people who can't afford a Wii360

(and therefore have to spend all their peas on arcade games

)

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:10 pm

SGWH has Wii60

Arcade games are expensive in Londong D:

Jeff 2G6 · Post by **Jeff 2G6** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:45 pm

Adventure Game/RPG GOTY - Oblivion
Action/Platform GOTY - Gears of War
Sports/Racing GOTY - NBA 2K7
Puzzle GOTY - Haven't played any this year
Strategy GOTY - Haven't played any this year

Handheld GOTY - Tekken: Dark Ressurection
PS2/PS3 GOTY - Guitar Hero 2
GC/Wii GOTY - Gamecube had games released tis year? (don't have wii)
Xbox/360 GOTY - Gears of War
Arcade GOTY - UNO (XBOX LIVE arcade)

Overall GOTY - Gears of War

Most Disappointing GOTY - Sonic the Hedgehog
Worst GOTY - Okami

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:48 pm

Glad you didn't like sonic. It really is terribly shit

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:00 pm

I've heard nothing but shite for the new Sonic.

After Rush, how can they do so wrong?

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:03 pm

Rush wasn't that amazing, simply something playable amid a sea of shite.

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:15 pm

Well, it was more Sonic than anything pretty much released after the MegaDrive era. It was a return to form.

Sonic should never have gone to 3D. Heck, even Sonic 3D's isometric was enough to give me a headache.

...all my Sonic ROMs on my PSP are for the MegaDrive, Game Gear and Master System. I love them all.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:28 pm

The two screeness in Rush didn't really work

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:38 pm

No. The touch screen was really just an extension of the old Sonic 2 Bonus Stages really.

Plus the two screens only really got used as one big screen anyway.

I still don't know whether I like the 3D bosses or not.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:45 pm

I mean the big screeness.
Looking from one screen to another at such a speed didn't add to the game, it just confused.

The 3D bosses reminded me of stuff like Klonoa, and I

Klonoa so

Sephira · Post by **Sephira** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:48 pm

Damien wrote:Haha. You cheated
I knew you'd have Xenosaga III at the top, but I didn't think you'd have it twice

FFXII really wasn't bad once i got into the swing of it and learnt to accept it for what it was.

Mwahahahaha. Cheatcheatcheat!

And, FFXII is bad. >_> "Lol, do nothing and watch the game play itself! THAT'S the future of gaming, and we at Square Enix are the first to truly bring it to you with the first game that you don't have to even TOUCH the controller to play!"

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:53 pm

Falling asleep and being woken up by the level up jingle is the wai of teh future

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:56 pm

Damien wrote:I mean the big screeness.
Looking from one screen to another at such a speed didn't add to the game, it just confused.

The 3D bosses reminded me of stuff like Klonoa, and I Klonoa so

I can't really have seen just one screen working.
They'd have done something silly with the other, like a map.

Which would have ruined the 'omfg, there's SO MANY PITFALLS' thing going on.

...I have a Sonic Advance 3 cartridge on my shelf. I wonder if that's any good

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:04 pm

Final Fantasy III has nothing on the other screen lots of the time.
You don't look at it. It also gives your battery more time to live

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:09 pm

My DS is so unloved.

The guy who sold me my PSP is now sending me Trauma Centre for Xmas fun.

Jeff 2G6 · Post by **Jeff 2G6** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:41 am

I don't really hate Sonic, but it certainly was dissapointing. The load times and shit are so annoying. If they fix that and some other minor stuff, it would actually be a pretty decent game.

Here's hoping Sega stops budgeting stupid games and start project Sonic Adventure 3.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:55 am

I really couldn't believe the loading times in Sonic.
There would be a 20-30 second loading time for a 5 second cut scene using the same graphics, then another 20-30 second loading time back into the game

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:49 pm

Man, talk about a one track mind... I thought the Sonic the Hedgehog fanboys were bad, but you've got a serious hardon for Forex to vote it top so many times

ArturKarim · Post by **ArturKarim** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:11 am

Sori, poiskom ne nashel.
U vas na forume videl ssilki na comedy club (4 poslednih vipuska)

Mozhet temi etoy uzhe ne sushestvuet, dayte plz eshio raz ssilki dlya skacki.
Ochen nuzhno!!!

Zaranee spasibo!

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:55 am

WTF?
I mean... я говорю по-русски / ya govoryu po-russky?

Calbrena · Post by **Calbrena** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:50 pm

He must be Undine's boy or something

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:24 pm

De-botting a thread is slow and annoying

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:33 pm

Ummm..... I think Suikoden V is the only (new) game I've played this year. It was a good game. Possibly game of the year, but I don't really know, seeing as I haven't played anything else.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:35 pm

Goty:
zelda tp

awesome of the year:
zelda tp

wolf of the year:
the one from okami

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:35 pm

I'm editing my list for Dead Rising.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:40 am

I will post my own list in a few days (maybe I'll play new games by then?

)
But Dead Rising will definitely be on it

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:12 am

And Zeldah?

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:59 am

Silly question, rly. Obviously it will.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:03 am

These categories suck. Adventure ! = rpg and Action != platformer.

RPG OTY - Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner
Adventure Game - ? (Possibly Dreamfall or Sam and Max but I haven't played either yet.)
Action - Castlevania: PoR
Platform GOTY - ?
Sports/Racing GOTY - Wii sports
Puzzle GOTY - ?
Strategy GOTY - ?
Music GOTY - Rhythm Tengoku

Handheld GOTY - Castlevania: PoR
PS2/PS3 GOTY - Yakuza
GC/Wii GOTY - Zelda TP
Xbox/360 GOTY - Dead Rising
Arcade GOTY - arcades are dead

Overall GOTY - Zelda TP

Most underrated GOTY - Suikoden V
Most Disappointing GOTY - Final Fantasy XII
Worst GOTY - Dirge of Cunterus
Most overrated GOTY - Final Fanasy XII and Okami tie

Since I'm dissatisfied with this goty poll I will paste this.

ctrl + v

Hmmmm yeah. Because I'm bored I'm going to rate every game I've played this year.

I will rate on a scale of 1 to 10.

1 - feces
2 - horrible
3 - Horrendously flawed
4 - Slightly below average
5 - Average.
6 - Slightly above average

7 - Suggested if you are a fan of the series or franchise or game creator
8 - Suggested if you are a fan of the genre
9 - A game that transcends standard gaming molds and delivers an unique, unforgettable gaming experience
10 - Classic

If it's a .5 that means it's ALMOST to the next point, obviously.

System purchase of an original Xbox

Chronicles of Riddick (xbox) - 8.5
Panzer Dragoon Orta (xbox) - 8.5
Ninja Gaiden (xbox) - 8.0
Psychonauts (xbox version) - 8.5
Jet Set Radio Future (xbox) - 9.0
Otogi (xbox) - 6.0
Otogi 2 (xbox) - 6.5
Gun Valkyrie (xbox) - 7.0
Half Life 2 (xbox) - 9.0
Dead or Alive 2 Ultimate Boxset (xbox) - 8.5 (nearly 9.0 with XBL included)
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball (xbox) - 5.0
Phantom Dust (xbox) - 8.0 (probably would be higher if I played it on XBL)
Indigo Prophecy (xbox) - 7.0
Jade Empire (xbox) - 8.0
Shenmue II (xbox version) - 8.5
Dynasty Warriors 4 (xbox) - 4.0)

Suikoden V (ps2) - 8.0
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (ps2) - 9.0
Yakuza (ps2) - 8.5
Silent Hill 2 - 9.0
Okami (ps2) - 6.0
Final Fantasy XII (ps2) - 7.0 (still not done yet, score could change)
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner (ps2) - 8.5
Shadow the Hedgehog (ps2) - 3.0
Romancing SaGa (ps2) - 4.0
Kingdom Hearts II (ps2) - 7.5
Killer 7 (ps2) - 9.0
Megaman X Collection (ps2) - 8.0
Sega Genesis Collection (ps2) - 8.0

Acquired Sega Dreamcast from friend

Jet Set Radio (DC) - 9.0
Shenmue (DC) - 9.0
Shenmue II (DC PAL import) - 9.5
Sonic Adventure (DC) - 6.0
Sonic Adventure 2 (DC) - 6.0

System purchase of a DS lite

Megaman ZX (DS) - 7.5
Phoenix Wright (DS) - 9.0
New Super Mario Bros. (DS) - 8.0
Contact (DS) - 7.5
Rhythm Tengoku (GBA rom pirated...lol) - 8.0
Castlevania: PoR (DS) - 9.0

System purchase of Nintendo Wii

Wii Sports (wii) - 8.0
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (wii) - 9.5 (still not done yet, score could change)

I haven't beaten everything on my list. Things like Romancing SaGa, Shadow the Hedgehog, Dynasty Warriors 4 all failed the test.

My rule is that if I'm not enjoying myself by the 10th hour, I shelve it. In many of those games' cases, they didn't survive to the 5th hour.

Great gaming year.

Zelda wins goty 2006, but overall best game I've played this year has to go to Shenmue II DC. In fact, I've enjoyed my DC games more than all of the other games on my list. I've played them many many times since getting them and I could still play them right fucking now.

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:46 am

An RPG is generally, by defintion, an Adventure game.
A platformer is, by definition, an Action game.
Don't think anyone has tried to say they are the same, and bundling them in the same category doesn't imply that either, tbh.

Dead Rising gets to be included in the list despite the fact that you can't read the on-screen text on a normal TV ;p

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:02 am

Chi wrote:An RPG is generally, by defintion, an Adventure game.
A platformer is, by definition, an Action game.
Don't think anyone has tried to say they are the same, and bundling them in the same category doesn't imply that either, tbh.

No they're not. rpgs are based around stats, first and foremost. Action games are about action, platformers are about...well, jumping from platform to platform, an element that recent "platformers" forget to utilize.

They are not lumped in the same categories at all.

Chi · Post by **Chi** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:19 am

Hm, it all depends on your definition of "action" and "adventure" to be honest.

What is jumping from platform to platform if not... a form of action?

Like it or not, Platformer is technically a subgenre of Action game. Until you get a Platformer that does not run in real time or rely on hand-eye co-ordination this will remain the case.

There might be an argument for separating them as categories if there were enough platformers to justfiy their own choice (historically why this has been the case). But have there been many platformers this year...?

The argument of RPGs not being Adventure games is stronger, and I concede this - EXCEPT - there are very few adventure games released nowadays, hence the suggestion of combining the two categories for GOTY purposes.

(However, many RPG games revolve around a strong interactive story, and often involve puzzles or some other degree of thought (admittedly this is getting much less and less nowadays, as compared to "whack things and level up" THANKS WOW). So this is a grey area.)

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:23 am

The whole sub categories thing is just confusing so I just call it like it is. If I play a shmup, I call it a shmup and not an action game. If I play an rpg that has adventure elements, I call it an rpg.

It just keeps the whole process much simpler that way.

Square Gamer

SG Games of The Year 2G6

Pomogite nayti Comedy