You people are lame

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:48 am

you people are lame. The following post (and the legions of fanboys agreeing with it) will be the proof.

KingOfHell · Post by **KingOfHell** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:34 pm

Jeff 2G6 wrote:Cause its a SE game and it'll probably suck jsut like SO3?

What's with peeps here at SQUARE gamer turning on the game company that basically invented good RPG's?? For people at a squaregamer forum to piss on square-enix its like a child hating its own mother! Valkyrie Profile 2 will definately rock, just like SO3 but with a good storyline. Graphics are superb, who needs a next gen console with games lookin this good.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:36 pm

Square Enix is an abusive parent

All we know is hate!

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:49 am

Asaroth Larot wrote:Square Enix is an abusive parent

All we know is hate!

rofl

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:52 am

KingOfHell wrote:
Jeff 2G6 wrote:Cause its a SE game and it'll probably suck jsut like SO3?
What's with peeps here at SQUARE gamer turning on the game company that basically invented good RPG's??

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HKK · Post by **HKK** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:52 pm

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:58 pm

That's not funny. It's true. Back in the days of the SNES Square was the ONLY company that made good RPGs as far as I'm concerned (good RPGs prior to SNES only exist as a relative term at best). It wasn't until the RPG boom following FF7 that other companies started making good RPGs (Suikoden's a great series, but it didn't get good until Suikoden II). Maybe there were a few exceptions... I can't really think of any. Lunar was never any good and never will be so don't feed me any of that shit.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:25 pm

Your a fanboy. Your opinion on the object of your fanboyness doesn't matter.

And it's not like you can invent something that was already invented.
OH HEY! LOOK! FORD INVENTED THE GOOD CAR!

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:04 am

square invented good rpgs if you're narrow minded.

but then, the people who would say such a thing aren't even fans of rpgs in the first place. The only rpgs they like are Final Fantasy, as if that's their ticket to rpg land.

I'm going to judge all rpgs. Square invented the good rpg dammit. I don't like rpg gameplay but dammit do I love the mediocre stories. That's what rpgs are about dammit! Story! That is why Square rpgs >>>> all other rpgs!!

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:02 am

himurokoken wrote:square invented good rpgs if you're narrow minded.

but then, the people who would say such a thing aren't even fans of rpgs in the first place. The only rpgs they like are Final Fantasy, as if that's their ticket to rpg land.

I'm going to judge all rpgs. Square invented the good rpg dammit. I don't like rpg gameplay but dammit do I love the mediocre stories. That's what rpgs are about dammit! Story! That is why Square rpgs >>>> all other rpgs!!

wtf???. I'm not giving you :checks anymore.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:43 pm

himurokoken wrote:square invented good rpgs if you're narrow minded.

but then, the people who would say such a thing aren't even fans of rpgs in the first place. The only rpgs they like are Final Fantasy, as if that's their ticket to rpg land.

I'm going to judge all rpgs. Square invented the good rpg dammit. I don't like rpg gameplay but dammit do I love the mediocre stories. That's what rpgs are about dammit! Story! That is why Square rpgs >>>> all other rpgs!!

The stories aren't mediocre. Some of them are quite good, particularly for FFVII and FFVIII, I would say. Moreover, video game RPGs pretty much are the only ones with the TYPE of stories FF has ("You mean sucky ones? Ha ha") Whatever. There's a reason for this, but it's difficult to explain what I mean, and frankly I think you would either immediately understand what I'm saying or you just won't get it period.

You start off with a ridiculous argument anyway, because you know for a fact FF isn't the only RPG I like.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:49 pm

you must have extremely low standards, because I've encountered less than a handfull of videogame stories that I considered better than mediocre. and I've played a shitload of story-oriented videogames.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:58 pm

I don't think it's a matter of standards. I think it's a matter of your bias. Most games do have crap stories though. On this point you're right. However, Final Fantasy happens to be on the top rung of the ladder as far as game stories go. At least it was.

I'm not going to try to compare game stories to those of novels, but they certainly are frequently far superior to what you'd find in a 2 hour movie.

Edit: Oops...not frequently...I mean FF stories are.....l

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:17 pm

so what exactly are you referring to Ward?

old dungeons and dragons games?

current pc rpgs?

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:12 am

Lord Golbez wrote: I think it's a matter of your bias.

My bias?

Astaroth: What am I referring to about what exactly? a) The handful of games that do have a good storyline. b) The fact that Square Enix did not invent the good rpg.

If it's a), stop thinking I'm so in love with D&D roleplaying games, and western RPGs, that I breathe and live off of them. I have hardly completed any of them. I do like the difference of paradigm over the Japanese games, but let's not get crazy and pretend that they (as a whole) do a good job at storytelling either.

If it's b), we would need to define what a "good" rpg is. I have a feeling this is different for everyone, which is why the initial comment was so fucking stupid in the first place.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:36 am

You're fucking stupid in the first place.

You're so full of shit, it's unbelievable.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:14 pm

That's your expert opinion on me? I'm completely shattered to find out that you don't like me.

!!!!!

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:42 pm

This whole discussion on "Square Enix invented/didn't invent good RPGs" is confusing.
Could probably use more factual examples, and less vague, general opinions thrown from both sides

(+ a bit of name-calling for good measure)
Then again, this would probably recquire defining terms such as "good" and "RPGs", or even "inventing"... which might represent too much of an effort for a mere forum discussion?

Seriously, even though I don't support such a radical opinion as "Square Enix invented good RPG", I have a difficult time, at the moment, at finding examples of console RPG[*] that have been more influential (in the old 8-32 bits days) than the Square Enix ones.
Sure, there's been a few series from other companies that I've enjoyed, like Phantasy Star, or Shining Force. But even those didn't seem as refined (especially presentation and interaction wise) than the SE games (most of their games honestly had really high standards of quality, that made them clearly stand out when compared with other games from the same era: excellent sounds and graphics, considering the available technology, for instance)

[*] Concerning PC RPG, it's a bit difficult to compare, since the audience (and its standards on what makes "a good RPG") is usually so different.

Edit: one thing I know for sure "Square Enix invented graphic-whorism in console RPG"

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:13 pm

WaWard wrote:
If it's a), stop thinking I'm so in love with D&D roleplaying games, and western RPGs, that I breathe and live off of them. I have hardly completed any of them. I do like the difference of paradigm over the Japanese games, but let's not get crazy and pretend that they (as a whole) do a good job at storytelling either.

If it's b), we would need to define what a "good" rpg is. I have a feeling this is different for everyone, which is why the initial comment was so fucking stupid in the first place.

My beef with western RPGs is they hardly even attempt to tell a story. They are more interested with open-ended adventures, which is fine if you like that sort of thing, but it's not my cup of tea.

Entr0pi3 · Post by **Entr0pi3** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 pm

Hmm, well I'm under the impression that when a "western" RPG is acclaimed for their story, to a "eastern RPG" fan, it looks more like a background story.
For instance, I remember playing (and enjoying) Might and Magic III, which was really all about exploring and managing your stats and equipment (is that "playing a role"?), and the "story" (background story, really) was only hinted at by stuff written on walls/books/altars/whatever, + occasional dialogs with some NPCs (+ stuff in the manual)

But originally, "eastern RPG" weren't so different: take FF1 for instance. Story elements you get mostly from some NPCs telling you "ok, in the past, this town was peaceful and all, but recently it just went all wrong". Then you go and kill some monster, and after that, NPCs are all like "ok everything is back to normal now, thank you guys". You don't get to actually see most of the events that are being refered to in dialogs. The biggest difference with western RPG back then was just that the game was more openly linear (thanks to the "broken bridge" trick)
FF games gradually changed the way they presented the story: for instance, in FF4, you get those "meanwhile" scenes where you get to see villains plotting behind your back, you also get the "big cinematic scenes" (usually involving some kind of mass destruction) with the Bomb Ring, the Titan earthquake, the airship bombing, the Leviathan attack, etc.
Add to that scripted character actions/dialogs, aka "character development"... I suppose the difference indeed have much to do with the less open-ended nature of the action (it's easier to have scripted, cinematic event in a linear game).

Still... I haven't played any recent western RPG, but I did play a bit of Arcanum, for instance. And at the beginning of the game at least, you have scripted events (along with FMVs), + some dialog with a playable character that sounds much like story telling and character development to me (even if your own character isn't predetermined and you can chose his/her answers)
So... I'm not sure the line between "western" and "eastern" RPGs is so clear cut. Most obvious differences are mostly cosmetic, IMO (character design and such)

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:28 pm

Lord Golbez wrote:My beef with western RPGs is they hardly even attempt to tell a story. They are more interested with open-ended adventures, which is fine if you like that sort of thing, but it's not my cup of tea.

No, it's true. Most of them don't focus on the storyline at all.
Those that somewhat do, give you a loose story and let you build around it with your action.

But that's completely besides the point, as it is irrelevent to what KingOfHell said in the first place.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:42 pm

Your beef is irrelevant, which is the real problem.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:58 pm

I don't hesitate to point out fanboyism in anyone posting here, because fanboyism as a whole is fucking retarded. I could care less if you have a problem with that.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:54 pm

WaWard wrote:
Lord Golbez wrote:My beef with western RPGs is they hardly even attempt to tell a story. They are more interested with open-ended adventures, which is fine if you like that sort of thing, but it's not my cup of tea.
No, it's true. Most of them don't focus on the storyline at all.
Those that somewhat do, give you a loose story and let you build around it with your action.

But that's completely besides the point, as it is irrelevent to what KingOfHell said in the first place.

I don't find it irrelevant. I like to define "good" by the kinds of things I like. Of course, this makes "good" subjective, but I don't really see a problem with that.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:32 pm

That's precisely why his statement is retarted. I would like to ask you, how do you invent something good?

I'll answer it for you: You don't. You invent something. Period.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:55 am

WaWard wrote: I've encountered less than a handfull of videogame stories that I considered better than mediocre. and I've played a shitload of story-oriented videogames.

If there's one thing that video games need to improve upon it's plot.

And anyways, this is VP thread mother fuckers.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:37 am

Fuck that, make a new thread. I'm fated to have my threads ruined by Xenosaga discussion, I guess others are fated with other types of fanboy drivel.

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:53 pm

WaWard wrote:That's precisely why his statement is retarted. I would like to ask you, how do you invent something good?

I'll answer it for you: You don't. You invent something. Period.

Well, I wasn't really arguing that his statement wasn't retarded, I just didn't take kindly to you laughing at it.

HKK · Post by **HKK** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:22 pm

WaWard wrote:Fuck that, make a new thread. I'm fated to have my threads ruined by Xenosaga discussion, I guess others are fated with other types of fanboy drivel.

change the thread name then and take the vp2 posts into a new thread

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:52 pm

So...Xenosaga?

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:12 pm

yuka wrote:So...Xenosaga?

Sure does suck! I know!

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:45 pm

himurokoken wrote:
WaWard wrote:Fuck that, make a new thread. I'm fated to have my threads ruined by Xenosaga discussion, I guess others are fated with other types of fanboy drivel.
change the thread name then and take the vp2 posts into a new thread

Done. Although I somewhat screwed up and left your original post in here. I have inserted the video in the troll post.

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:30 am

Roffle-waffle.

Asaroth Larot · Post by **Asaroth Larot** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:49 am

WaWard wrote:I don't hesitate to point out fanboyism in anyone posting here, because fanboyism as a whole is fucking retarded. I could care less if you have a problem with that.

Everyone's a fanboy but you Ward.

Going to run off everyone who says something positive about Square?

Garbo · Post by **Garbo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:49 am

Ward as a whole is retarded.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:52 am

Asaroth Larot wrote:
WaWard wrote:I don't hesitate to point out fanboyism in anyone posting here, because fanboyism as a whole is fucking retarded. I could care less if you have a problem with that.

Everyone's a fanboy but you Ward.

Going to run off everyone who says something positive about Square?

I know you're working very hard to get posts, but you should definitely read what I said, or shut the fuck up.

MegaManX · Post by **MegaManX** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:03 pm

This thread lacks Pie.

Plaztik · Post by **Plaztik** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:11 pm

it definitely doesn't lack poo :<

isildur · Post by **isildur** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:20 pm

You spazzy motherfuckers just need to come to agree on what is clearly the best game ever made, in terms of graphics, gameplay, and story. Japanodorks and their rivals alike can all agree:

Lord Golbez · Post by **Lord Golbez** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:36 pm

Bubble Bobble is awesome! Also, the music for that game is going to be stuck in my head all day now.

MegaManX · Post by **MegaManX** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:41 pm

isildur wrote:You spazzy motherfuckers just need to come to agree on what is clearly the best game ever made, in terms of graphics, gameplay, and story. Japanodorks and their rivals alike can all agree:

I think for about a year straight as a kid, this was the only game I played.

It even had Coop!

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:15 pm

isildur wrote:You spazzy motherfuckers just need to come to agree on what is clearly the best game ever made, in terms of graphics, gameplay, and story. Japanodorks and their rivals alike can all agree:

True. Taito invented the good videogame!!!

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:46 pm

BUT YOU CAN'T INVENT SOMETHING GOOD!! YOU CAN ONLY INVENT!!

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:00 pm

yuka wrote:BUT YOU CAN'T INVENT SOMETHING GOOD!! YOU CAN ONLY INVENT!!

YOU'RE RIGHT. TAITO IS NOT SQUARE SOFT, THE ONLY EXCEPTION TO THE RULES OF LOGIC AND GOOD SENSE.

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:09 pm

INDEED

Undine · Post by **Undine** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:49 pm

PIE!

Cybernetic Empire · Post by **Cybernetic Empire** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:52 am

Undine wrote:PIE!

Undine, you're such a tease. When are we going to have wild monkey sex? The Internet and I would really like to know.

WaWard · Post by **WaWard** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:12 am

I already know cuz she told me before.

March 5th 2010 at 4:35 am sharp, but only if it rained the day before.

Yuka · Post by **Yuka** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:21 pm

I've been playing Tales of Eternia today, and now I have to go to the Undine River!

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:54 pm

You people are lame